
Rock Town at 16: Phil Brandon Talks Rum-Finished Rye, Arkansas Oak and What Comes Next
Phil Brandon discusses Rock Town’s anniversary rye, Arkansas grains, Bardstown production and Arkansas oak experiments in an extensive Bourbon Legends interview and Q&A.
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Last Updated on October 3, 2026 by Justin Jones
Interview at a glance
- Interviewee: Phil Brandon, founder of Rock Town Distillery in Little Rock, Arkansas.
- Interviewer and original video: The Bourbon Legends — Thirsty Nite Live.
- Interview date: . YouTube upload date: .
- Coverage: Rock Town’s origins, Arkansas grains, Bardstown production, rice bourbon, distillation, maturation, anniversary rye and Arkansas oak experiments.
- Interview record: 46 exchanges and conversational prompts, with timestamp links and transcript-based quotations.
ArkansasLiquor.com’s feature places Phil’s interview remarks in context and adds separately attributed information from Rock Town’s official anniversary announcements. The Bourbon Legends conducted the original interview. Bracketed wording and transcription notes identify passages requiring audio review.
Rock Town Distillery · Little Rock, Arkansas
Sixteen years of Arkansas whiskey—and another barrel chapter
Rock Town’s next anniversary whiskey has a connection that reaches further than a purchased finishing cask: the barrel previously held rum made by the same Little Rock distillery. Founder Phil Brandon told The Bourbon Legends that the rum had spent six years in that barrel before it became the finishing vessel for rye.
That announcement was one part of a wide-ranging October 1 conversation about building a distillery in Arkansas, learning from Dave Pickerell, scaling production with Bardstown Bourbon Company, turning Arkansas rice into bourbon and experimenting with barrels made from Arkansas oak.
For Arkansas whiskey drinkers, the interview offers a detailed look at the decisions behind the bottles. Brandon discusses the practical work—equipment, fermentation, distillation proof, barrel sizes and warehouse costs—alongside the people and local connections that have shaped Rock Town.
This feature draws from the interview conducted by The Bourbon Legends. The original video appears above, and the extended Q&A below follows the conversation in order, including follow-ups, audience questions and conversational prompts.
Key points from Phil Brandon’s interview
These are editorial summaries of Phil’s remarks. Follow the linked answers for his wording and the source recording.
- Rock Town’s origins: Phil says he wanted to build a business in his Arkansas hometown and make bourbon from Arkansas grains. Read his answer.
- Startup whiskey: Phil says Rock Town did not source whiskey to sell when it started; vodka and gin helped support the business while bourbon aged. Read his answer.
- Bardstown production: Phil describes taking Rock Town recipes and Arkansas grains to Bardstown Bourbon Company to increase production, with his team involved in the runs. Read his answer.
- Anniversary rum finish: Phil says the finishing cask previously held rum he made and aged for six years. Read the rum discussion.
- Arkansas oak: Phil describes a small experimental barrel program using Arkansas oak and a favorable tasting at three years; he does not give a release date. Read his answer.
- A first Rock Town bourbon: Phil recommends the original 92-proof Arkansas Bourbon Whiskey to a newcomer. Read his answer.
01 / The timely release
The anniversary rye: Rock Town rum meets Rock Town whiskey
In the interview, Brandon identifies October 23 as the masterclass date and October 24 as the public bottle-release date. When asked why he chose a rum finish, he points to Angel’s Envy and reveals an Arkansas connection: Owen Martin, whom he identifies as its master distiller, worked at Rock Town early in his career.
Brandon says Martin’s first job after distilling school in Edinburgh was in Little Rock. He recalls approximately a year and a half at Rock Town before Martin moved to Stranahan’s in Colorado, eventually becoming head distiller there and later joining Angel’s Envy. Angel’s Envy’s own company history identifies Martin as its master distiller.
The finishing barrel’s history gives this release a particularly local identity. Brandon says it held his own rum for six years. He also mentions a rum barrel selected by Legacy Wine and Spirits, a connection ArkansasLiquor.com previously covered in Legacy’s Rock’n Rum release. That earlier retail release is related coverage; the interview does not establish that it was the same barrel used for the anniversary rye.
Additional details from Rock Town’s official announcement
Rum-finished anniversary rye
Five-year rye · two-month finish
25-gallon Rock Town rum cask
Approximately 110 bottles · $79.99
Final proof scheduled for announcement October 16
5 Year Single Barrel Rye
Unfinished companion from the same original rye barrel
123.4 proof · 90 bottles · $69.99
Public bottle release
Saturday, October 24, 2026 · 11 a.m.
At Rock Town Distillery
Open house: 11 a.m.–2 p.m.
Rock Town’s anniversary announcement says the rye was pot-distilled in Little Rock and matured in a 53-gallon Kelvin barrel for five years and 32 days before part was transferred for finishing. These details supplement the interview; they are not presented as Phil’s quoted answers.
Plan the visit
Friday’s masterclass and Saturday’s celebration
Rock Town’s masterclass listing gives a Friday, October 23 start time of 6:30 p.m. and a ticket price of $199.99. Phil leads the guided tasting.
The listed package includes rare and special pours, a meat-and-cheese plate from BCW, a bottle of the rum-finished anniversary rye, a 2026 challenge coin, a branded hat and an anniversary Glencairn. Attendees also receive first access to purchase the unfinished five-year single barrel rye before Saturday’s public release.
For the public celebration and current event information, consult Rock Town’s anniversary event page.
02 / Building at home
Why Arkansas? A fifth-generation Arkansan’s answer
Brandon’s answer to the opening question is personal. He describes himself as a fifth-generation Arkansan who wanted to establish a business in his hometown and use Arkansas grains to make Arkansas bourbon. The opportunity to set a standard in a state without an established modern distilling industry was part of the attraction.
He recalls the original operation in an old warehouse district on East Sixth Street. In his telling, the business began with a rusted-out warehouse and a coat of paint, long before the surrounding area developed into what visitors see today.
He also says Rock Town did not buy sourced whiskey to sell at startup. Vodka and gin provided cash flow while bourbon aged. Looking back, he acknowledges that the decision may have made the finances harder, but says his principle was to make his whiskey his way and accept the consequences.
That startup history is distinct from Rock Town’s later collaborative production at Bardstown. The interview makes clear that Little Rock production and Kentucky production are both part of the broader whiskey story; the details of each expression matter.
03 / Learning the craft
Engineering, Vendome and one-to-one lessons from Dave Pickerell
Brandon did not arrive with professional distilling experience. He says he had an engineering degree and a background in industrial automation and manufacturing sales, including visits to manufacturing plants across Arkansas and neighboring states. He understood production as a business and a process; whiskey was the subject he wanted to learn.
Choosing equipment was one of the early decisions he remembers as especially difficult. Some craft distillers were using German stills influenced by the brandy tradition. Brandon chose Vendome, describing access to parts and support closer to home as practical reasons for the choice.
Vendome also connected him with Dave Pickerell, the former Maker’s Mark master distiller. Brandon describes learning the finer points directly from Pickerell rather than following a ready-made school curriculum.
His account includes late-night reading, the American Distilling Institute forums and experienced distillers sharing knowledge. It is a useful reminder that the earliest stages of the business required both technical study and relationships with people willing to help a newcomer.
04 / Growth without a new distillery
Arkansas grains travel to Bardstown
The Bardstown partnership allowed Brandon to make more whiskey without financing an entirely new, larger distillery. He describes the arrangement as access to a production facility where he can bring his recipes and Arkansas grains, while Bardstown’s team operates the equipment.
Brandon says he and members of his team attend the production run. He describes their involvement in grain inspection, testing, milling, cooking, fermentation, distillation, barreling and moving the barrels to the warehouse. His stated goal is to reproduce the whiskey he wants at a scale the Little Rock operation could not otherwise support.
He says the first three years used his standard wheated recipe before he decided to emphasize another Arkansas ingredient: rice. The rice bourbon discussed in the interview combines Arkansas corn and Arkansas rice.
The distinction is useful when reading a label: a brand’s home, grain origin, distillation site and maturation site describe different parts of the process. Brandon’s explanation gives readers the context to understand why some Rock Town-associated whiskey is produced in Little Rock while other whiskey is made through the Bardstown program.
05 / Production lessons
The rice batch that clogged a pipe
Some of the most revealing moments are the mistakes. Brandon recounts a rice batch that felt gritty in the fermenter. The material settled to the bottom and blocked a transfer pipe, requiring workers to open it and getting them covered in rice.
His explanation is that the cooking sequence had placed rice with grains added during cooling. Rice needed a higher-temperature step, he says, and should have been added with corn as the cook heated up. He describes taking the cook to 192 degrees so the rice starch could gelatinize and subsequently be converted into fermentable sugars.
The hosts ask whether that happened just once. Brandon says it did, then recounts a separate incident in which an unfinished cooker was pumped into a fermenter before conversion was complete. He describes it as a failed fermentation and remembers late-night calls to Bardstown’s management.
These stories show what changing ingredients and scaling a recipe can mean in practice. They are Brandon’s accounts of production problems and the lessons taken from them; the complete explanations remain in the Q&A.
06 / What the barrel changes
From five-gallon barrels to 53-gallon maturation
Brandon traces Rock Town’s barrel program from five- and ten-gallon barrels through larger sizes. He recalls working with Gibbs Brothers Cooperage and later blending whiskey aged in Gibbs and Kelvin barrels. He says current new aging uses 53-gallon barrels, while some smaller barrels remain in inventory.
His approach to the early smaller barrels also shaped his distillation decisions. Brandon describes narrow cuts and running close to the upper distillation proof limit to obtain a cleaner spirit for shorter maturation. He contrasts the fuller spirit from his relatively short pot-still column with what a much taller production column can separate.
He gives 110 proof as his barrel-entry proof and says proof rises during Arkansas maturation. The rice single barrel he was drinking was 52 months old and 120 proof, having entered at 110.
For the current 53-gallon barrels, he identifies Kelvin and describes two-year seasoned wood with a No. 4 char. His account of visiting the cooperage emphasizes workers watching the fires, toasting before charring and applying skilled manual judgment.
07 / Kentucky aging, Arkansas identity
Bourbon Y’all and two different maturation stories
The early Column Still Collection releases, identified in the interview by orange, silver and blue wax, were primarily aged in smaller barrels in Arkansas, Brandon says. He describes initial 2020 and 2021 production brought back from Kentucky for that maturation.
He also explains the cost of warehouse space and building a rickhouse. Other barrels stayed at Bardstown, including on fifth and seventh floors. For the Bourbon Y’all bottle he shows, he describes five years of Kentucky aging on the seventh floor.
The branding has a different kind of origin: he associates it with the look and spirit of the 1990s and Yo! MTV Raps. His explanation pushes back against making every pour an exercise in chasing bottles or elaborate tasting notes. He wanted a whiskey people could drink while enjoying a conversation.
Together, those comments explain why an Arkansas-founded whiskey business can have multiple production and maturation paths—and why a bottle’s individual story deserves more attention than a broad assumption about the brand.
08 / A local connection in the wood
Arkansas oak: an experiment worth following
The most intriguing future project involves barrels made from identified Arkansas oak. Brandon says he bought a small number from Seguin Moreau: the wood was cut and seasoned in Arkansas, sent to Napa for coopering and returned to Arkansas for aging.
He says he recently tasted the whiskey at three years old and was pleased with the result. His enthusiasm is paired with caution: he wanted to test a few barrels before committing a large amount of whiskey to an unfamiliar barrel program.
Brandon also describes core samples sent to a French laboratory, chemical analysis used to characterize the wood and barcode tracking through production. Those technical details are his description of the cooperage’s process.
The cooperage’s Arkansas connection is independently documented. A 2019 Arkansas Economic Development Commission announcement identified Seguin Moreau’s plan to restart a stave mill in Hot Spring County. Its Napa company history also documents the California workshop.
The experiment fits Brandon’s broader view that a distillery should reflect the place it comes from. In this case the Arkansas link reaches beyond the grains and climate to the wood surrounding the whiskey. He does not announce a product name or release date for the experimental barrels in the interview.
09 / People, pours and Little Rock
A distillery for bourbon drinkers—and everyone else
The hosts repeatedly praise Rock Town’s cocktail bar, service and role as a place to take visitors. Brandon explains that the standard tasting begins with vodka and gin, moves through whiskey and finishes with coffee liqueur and bourbon cream.
His point is straightforward: visitors have different preferences. A range of products gives someone who does not enjoy gin or bourbon another way into the experience. When the hosts mention vodka sales, his response is that those sales help him make more bourbon.
The conversation also includes his wife’s candid tasting feedback, the surprise of Beefeater’s master distiller seeking out his gin, a granddaughter’s brief visit and an audience question about DeLuca’s pizza. Those moments give the technical discussion a human scale.
Asked which bourbon to recommend to someone unfamiliar with Rock Town, Brandon chooses the original 92-proof Arkansas Bourbon Whiskey. The hosts also float a live show and a barrel pick at the distillery. That remains a proposal in the interview, rather than an announced booking.
For another expression of Rock Town’s Arkansas identity, see our coverage of Natural State Bourbon – Cedar Falls. The full questions and extended answers from this conversation follow below.
The extended conversation
Phil Brandon: the interview Q&A
The following section preserves the questions directed to Phil, follow-ups, audience questions and related conversational prompts in interview order. Questions asked of the other hosts or of his granddaughter are outside this Phil Q&A.
Quotation note: Answers are transcribed from the supplied interview transcripts and captions. Punctuation and paragraph breaks have been adjusted for reading; bracketed words mark clarifications or uncertain transcription. Separate quotations indicate intervening host comments. The linked recording is the authoritative source for exact wording and speaker identity.
Brief exchanges with uncertain attribution remain in context rather than being assigned a made-up Phil answer. The narrative and the official anniversary facts above are separate from these interview quotations.
Arkansas beginnings
Exchange 01 / 7:47
The hats Phil wears
Opening introduction; a conversational prompt rather than a formal question.
The Bourbon Legends: “I don't know how many hats you wear there at Rocktown.”
A few.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 02 / 8:52
Why make whiskey in Arkansas?
The Bourbon Legends: “Why Arkansas? Why in the hell would anybody try to make legal whiskey in Arkansas? And you're the first person that has done that legally since Prohibition. But why here?”
You know, I'm a fifth generation Arkansan and Arkansas through and through. So I said… You know, if I'm going to do it anywhere, I'm going to do it right here. I could be the first and I could set the standard. And and lo and behold, I put Arkansas on the world whiskey map, you know. So, yeah, I just I wanted to build a business or distillery in my hometown and use Arkansas grains to make Arkansas bourbon whiskey, you know. Mm hmm. Here we are 16 years later, if you can believe that.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 03 / 9:50
Rock Town’s original location
The hosts recalled the original distillery near the Clinton Presidential Center. The opening portion of Phil’s response overlaps with the host; the clearly attributable answer begins with the warehouse district.
The Bourbon Legends: “I can remember going to the first distillery over there on the, well, I don't know how to, since I'm not from Little Rock, I don't know how to explain it, especially to viewers who have no idea. But I'll just say over on the Bill Clinton glorified double wide platform,”
It was an old warehouse district on [East Sixth Street], and I was the first thing to go out there. It's all developed up now, but, um, yeah, you know, found an old rust out, rusted out warehouse and, you know, put a lick, a coat of paint on it, and here we go, you know.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: The overlapping host lead-in is omitted. The bracket expands the street name; the self-corrections are retained from the transcript.
Exchange 04 / 10:47
Did Rock Town source whiskey at startup?
Phil’s answer is followed by the hosts’ comparison with sourced-whiskey startups; his additional response appears as a separate quotation.
The Bourbon Legends: “Did you source anything starting out or did you just, you started right off the bat just distilling your own?”
I did not source a drop, which, you know. might've been a mistake, I guess, cashflow wise, but it was, my principles were that I wanted to make my whiskey my way and take it, take my lumps where I got them. And, uh, so yeah, no sourcing up front. That's for sure.
Phil Brandon
Well, we did start making vodka and gin, um, to have some cashflow while the bourbon aged. But, uh, yeah, we didn't source any whiskey at all.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 05 / 11:58
Flavored vodka
The Bourbon Legends: “And y'all have some flavored versions of that as well, I believe, right?”
Yeah, we've got six flavors. Yeah, for sure. So that's big for us, for sure.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 06 / 15:28
The biggest startup challenge
The Bourbon Legends: “When you opened as the first legal distillery in Arkansas since Prohibition, what was the toughest thing? What was the most challenging issue that you ran into trying to get the Rocktown off the ground?”
Um, you know, I, there was so many challenges. I don't even know what the most, the hardest, worst thing was. But what seems like a no brainer now was actually a pretty difficult decision. And that was to, you know, buy a still from Vendome and not one of these German manufacturers. Um, you know, a lot of the guys that started before me, if you look at dry fly up in Spokane or [Tuthilltown] in New York, um, they were all using [KARL] stills, which is a German still, and they were kind of, uh, studied under the, the kind of the brandy tradition. And, um, I was doing my due diligence and trying to find still manufacturers and where to get a still legally.
And there were these Ozark moonshine stills and all this kind of stuff. And I wanted a real deal still. And I found Vendome. And they had a website, but it was a pretty… rudimentary website for, you know, circa 2008, 2009. So, but I reached out to him and said, Hey, you know, start looking at starting distillery. I need to get a quote for, you know, a still and all that. And was just really, you know, it became obvious that that was what I needed to do. I didn't want to wait for parts from Germany or, you know, get on a conference call in the middle of the night to talk to somebody about what was going wrong and ended up being a great decision. Obviously, there are legends in the bourbon world and build all the stills for all the major distilleries.
So it was it was crazy to try to figure out what to get. But you know, in the end it became a no brainer for sure.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 07 / 17:52
Experience before distilling
The Bourbon Legends: “So did you have any experience at all? Or you just jumped in just both feet and just said, I'm going to learn how to do this.”
Yeah. It was kind of the second thing there. I kind of just jumped in with both feet and said, I'm going to learn how, I mean, I, I do have an engineering degree and certainly understand the science behind it all and worked in industrial automation and manufacturing sales for the early part of my career. So I'd been in and out of every manufacturing plant in Arkansas practically, some in Louisiana and Mississippi as well. So I understood, you know, what it was to be a manufacturer, what it took, what went into it. So I had some background, but in distilling per se, no, but I was definitely a whiskey geek. And that's what… drew me to it you know it was this idea that these small distilleries on the on the coasts had started up and I started reading up on those and that's where the light bulb went off so to speak and I said wow you know I could do that that'd be a cool business to start and I wasn't interested in making beer I mean there were lots of craft breweries at the time and that really wasn't You know, I like beer.
I drink beer, but I didn't want to make it. But the idea of making whiskey was like, oh, now that would be cool. I could really, you know, get into that.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 08 / 20:34
What help came from Vendome?
A follow-up prompt about the equipment supplier led to Phil’s account of learning from Dave Pickerell.
The Bourbon Legends: “Like you were saying, you started out with Vendome, so I'm sure they had a little bit of knowledge on…”
Well, what they did is they connected me with [Dave Pickerell], who was the former master distiller for Maker's Mark, who was the Johnny Appleseed, basically, of craft distilling. and hooked me up with him, and he basically taught me the finer points on a one-to-one basis instead of trying to sit through some class in Moonshine University that didn't exist in 2009. There was no school. There was no reading materials. There was nothing but the American Distilling Institute's website, ADI, the ADI forums. And we would all get on the forums there and ask each other questions. And people like Todd Leopold and others were in there spouting their knowledge for the rest of us.
So it was all about, you know, if you want to do it, you got to pull up your bootstraps and make it happen. Nobody's going to feed it to you, but, you know, spoon feed it to you, so to speak. So, yeah, it was a lot of fun. This is what a lot of late nights reading all the books I could find or buy and spending time on the forums and studying, you know. And then while you're doing that, you got to, you know, sip on something just to, you know, get some inspiration.
Phil Brandon
Arkansas grains and Bardstown
Exchange 09 / 23:15
Arkansas grains and rice bourbon
Roger’s ingredient discussion was framed as observations rather than a single formal question.
The Bourbon Legends: “You utilize and use a lot of Arkansas-grown grains. And just about everything that you could want is grown in this state. I know that. And that's the beauty of it. And then, you know, because that makes a big difference in the flavor on the grain, your ability to know the quality of the product you're putting into it. The other thing I find interesting is you do a rice bourbon. And then also he's got a bottle that he's drinking right now.”
Yeah. And that's with Arkansas grown rice. Right. And it's a bourbon though. So it's Arkansas corn and Arkansas rice.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 10 / 24:34
Arkansas rice production
The host recalled telling another distiller that Arkansas leads in rice production; Phil affirmed the point.
The Bourbon Legends: “And anyway, I had to give him a hard time and let him know that you do know, Mike, that Arkansas is the number one producer of rice.”
That's absolutely right.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 11 / 25:12
The Rock Town drinking-game aside
The host had made “Rock Town” the evening’s drinking-game phrase; this was a playful interruption during the Bardstown question.
The Bourbon Legends: “See what I did there?”
Oh, excuse me.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 12 / 25:16
The Bardstown partnership and Arkansas grains
The Bourbon Legends: “But you also, what would the right word be here? Partner. Bardstown Bourbon Company actually helps distill some of your product as well on their column still there. Right. But you're using all Arkansas grains and you're actually shipping them to Bardstown, Kentucky.”
That's right. Yeah. So they have a program they call their collaborative distilling program, where it's basically like, you know, a commercial kitchen or whatever. And you can take up there and make whatever you want. Right. There's guys that have made bourbon with popcorn seeds. There's guys that have made bourbon with all kinds of different grains and all this wild stuff. They probably make 50 different mash bills, but Back in [year unclear], I wanted to make more bourbon. I didn't want to spend, I didn't have any money to spend, but I didn't want to have to try to get $5 million or $10 million and build a larger distillery. So I heard about Bardstown's program and so reached out to them and said, listen, I want to make my recipe with my grains at your place.
And they were like, no problem. So I go up there every year and usually take some members of my team with me and we go up there and their team pushes the buttons, right? But we're there watching what happens and making sure that it is what we want it to be. Everything from the grain inspection when it comes in, testing the grain, making sure it's viable, to milling, cooking, fermenting, distilling, barreling, and then rolling it out to the rickhouse. We're there the entire time. The interesting thing was this rice bourbon, We, the first three years we made our standard [wheated] recipe. And then I was like, what are we doing? We, we need to lean into the fact that we make bourbon with Arkansas rice.
So we're going to start making. you know, rice bourbon at Bardstown too. So we took the rice up there and we started, you know, in on making our first batch and turned out we had some of the cook procedure backwards and we got it in the fermenter and it just felt like sand in the fermenter. I mean, it was like, why is this so gritty? I don't know what happened. And it fermented out and we were like, okay, you know, let's pump it to the beer well for distillation. And that sand had sunk completely to the bottom and clogged a pipe that was this big around. And they had their guys down there busting that pipe apart and just got covered in rice. Just completely covered.
And that was when we went back and looked at the cook template, and I had the rice being added on the way down as we're cooling, like you would a wheat or a rye or a malted barley. But rice has a higher gelatinization temperature than they do. It needed to be added with the corn on the way up, so it got all the way up. to 192 degrees and gelatinized so that the malted barley could convert those starches to fermentable sugars. And so it was just like, duh, but it was wild.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: The transcripts render one year as “2000”; it remains bracketed as unclear. Later in the interview Phil explicitly discusses initial production in 2020 and 2021.
Exchange 13 / 29:25
Was the rice-cooking problem a one-time mistake?
The Bourbon Legends: “You only ran it like that one time, I'm assuming.”
Yeah, that was it, the one time. But it was crazy. We had a couple other little mishaps. We had a… second shift that came in at night, right? And my team had left and we went to dinner and we'd had some drinks and the whole thing. And we come back and just check to see how progress is going, right? Because they're running 24-7. So they had the second shift come in. And we must have really kind of I don't know, shook up the night cook, let's just say. And he got discombobulated and pumped the wrong, they have two cookers. He pumped the wrong cooker to the fermenter. Not the one that was done, but the one that was in the middle of cooking. So the conversion hadn't happened, and it was basically a blown fermentation.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 14 / 30:33
Could the unfinished mash be pumped back?
The Bourbon Legends: “You had a one-way pump. You could pump it in, but you couldn't pump it back, huh?”
right and you know so they uh you know all the phones of all the higher-ups at barstown started ringing here about you know 11 p.m at night while they're all sleeping with their kids or whatever and it was pretty interesting but uh it happens to everybody you know but um the beauty of that program is i can take my recipe my grains make whiskey my way i do a lot of things there that that isn't normally done that they were like doing their head scratch, not things that are weird, but you know, it's just, I wanted to duplicate kind of what we do here and, um, technical distilling things. I, you know, it's pretty boring stuff, but, um, they were boring.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: The last short phrase of this transcript passage is unclear; it is retained as transcribed pending audio review.
Exchange 15 / 31:28
Was the technical discussion boring?
A host interrupted after Phil described the technical material as boring.
The Bourbon Legends: “Hold on. Who's it boring to?”
Context / transcription note: The captions merge speakers here. The hosts reassure him, “Not us, not us.” A separate reply from Phil cannot be confidently isolated from the supplied text.
Distillation and barrels
Exchange 16 / 31:59
The bourbon distillation proof limit
Phil first asked the hosts about the limit. Their 165-proof guess and 160-proof follow-up prompted his correction and explanation.
The Bourbon Legends: “I believe it's 165, is it not? 160?”
It's 160.
Phil Brandon
So you can't distill above 160, you can't bottle below 80. But I like to distill as close to that as I possibly can. And the reason why I do that is because in my pot still, with the four-tray column that it has, It's relatively small compared to a 45, 50-foot column still, right?
Phil Brandon
It's 14, 17 feet tall. I don't know. It's taller than I am, but not as tall as the column stills. And you don't get as much separation between the trays, and thus you get a fatter, fuller spirit, right? Which is a good thing. We love that about our pot stills. But I found that if I run the distillation at a higher proof off the still, I get a cleaner spirit. And for me, being a small guy, it was important to have a cleaner spirit in order to be able to mature it for a smaller amount of time, especially since I started out in the smaller barrels, right?
Phil Brandon
Exchange 17 / 33:20
How small were the first barrels?
The host interjects that he knows Jay, and later mentions 20-gallon barrels. Phil’s continuing responses are quoted separately.
The Bourbon Legends: “30 gallon or smaller than 30?”
I started out with five gallons from Gibbs Brothers Cooperage.
Phil Brandon
Jay's a great guy, man. He helped me out so much. Started with fives and tens and then did tens and fifteens. And then when I started going bigger than 15, Jay was like, hmm. I don't know that I really want to do anything bigger than 15. My equipment's not really set up for that.
Phil Brandon
Yeah, so we bought a bunch of 20-gallons from him back in 2020 and 2021. But he… You know, as things go, you progress, and now we're only aging in 53 gallons, but we still have a bunch of 25s and a few 20s left. But anyway, when you want to mature something in a smaller barrel, you need to have as clean a spirit as you possibly can. So we take very narrow cuts. We distill at a very high proof. Obviously, you're adding water to proof it down. We go into the barrel at 110, and then we age it from there, and our proofs in Arkansas here rise over time. So, you know, we may end up with 120, you know, like this single-barrel Arkansas rice. I just… had a sip of was, is 120 proof and went in at 110, but it's 52 months old.
So that's what happens. You know, the angels take their share. [Name unclear] takes his share and we try to sell the rest.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 18 / 35:13
Where and how long is the Bardstown whiskey aged?
The hosts asked Phil to show the Bourbon Y’all bottle between these two answer passages.
The Bourbon Legends: “Now, when you were talking about it, Bardstown, you mentioned that they age it there as well. So how long do they age the column steel stuff there from off of Bardstown in their, in their rickhouses?”
The initial stuff we did in 2020 and 2021, we brought a bunch of it back and aged it here in Arkansas. So that was the 20 gallons from Gibbs and the 25 gallons from Kelvin. And that was the initial release of the column steel collection, the orange wax, um, the silver wax and the blue wax. Yeah. Those are them. Um, so those were, that was primarily aged in the small barrels here in Arkansas, but, um, You know, warehouse space is expensive, and especially if you're trying to build a legit rickhouse. So we did put a bunch of barrels on the seventh floor and the fifth floor of a bunch of their rickhouses. So that's what is actually inside this product, bourbon y'all.
I don't know if you guys have seen that.
Phil Brandon
It's five years. It's Kentucky straight because it's aged in Kentucky for five years on the seventh floor of a Bardstown bourbon rickhouse, but it was produced by me. You can kind of see my signature on there. [Name unclear], chief of whiskey shenanigans and uh that's just meant to be a you know everybody gets so highfalutin about bourbon and tasting notes and blah blah blah and you know chasing this bottle and chasing that bottle i just want to have a drink and have some fun you know and sit down and talk with guys. And, and, and so that's, that's where the, the bourbon y'all idea came in is like, it's a throwback to yo MTV raps and, you know, kind of that nineties kind of look back when, you know, I was in my prime.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 19 / 38:39
Which cooperage supplies the 53-gallon barrels?
Phil pauses to acknowledge his granddaughter during the answer. He later adds the account of visiting Kelvin after the hosts comment on the cooperage.
The Bourbon Legends: “As Craig and I know, we might have a few Gibbs brothers barrels that we've used and, and they, we love it because they're great barrels, but who is, who do you currently use for your 53 gallons?”
A long time ago, I started also buying barrels from Kelvin Cooperage. They were an independent small Cooperage. The guys at Independent Stave really weren't interested in small guys yet. They were mainly like, we'll sell them to you by the truckload. I did drive up to Missouri
Phil Brandon
But I drove up with my truck to Missouri, to Lebanon, Missouri, and picked up some barrels from [Independent Stave]. But Kelvin would make a 15 back in the day. And I had aged some bourbon in a 15 and sent it to Jim Murray for his whiskey Bible. And that's when he named us the U.S. Micro Whiskey of the Year in 2015. And I was like, oh, well, maybe I should start using some more Kelvin barrels. So I was blending Gibbs barrels and Kelvin barrels together. And as Jay does, he's like, I'm not going to make anything bigger than a 20. I stayed with Kelvin. Today, we get two-year, yard-dried, number four char, 53-gallon barrels from them. That's what we do.
Phil Brandon
I've toured the Kelvin Cooperage factory many times, and it is, you know, the real deal. They got guys there standing over the fires, watching them char. They're toasting them first. And then charring them, I mean, it's an amazing thing to watch. But it really is very manual and very skilled, the types of the things that they do. It really is super cool. Yeah, yeah.
Phil Brandon
People and the anniversary rye
Exchange 20 / 42:54
Palate feedback from Phil’s wife
A discussion prompt about women in distilling led into Phil’s wife’s feedback, individual sulfur sensitivity and a Beefeater encounter.
The Bourbon Legends: “I think you got to have, as, as every, I think distillery has learned, you have to have a female palate tasting some of your product because it really doesn't make a difference. They, they have a much better sense. It can pick up on this stuff.”
That is absolutely correct. My wife tastes everything I make. I guarantee it. She can tell me what, whether I'm heading right or heading wrong, you know,
Phil Brandon
The challenge is my wife's face tells everything. She can't like [word unclear] it. So like early on we were at like some – tasting shows, you know, these things that distributors have or whatever, where you're tasting to the public, and these guys would come in and, you know, hey, this is the stuff that I made. Here, try this.
Phil Brandon
She would just go… Her face would… Okay, so we were at Tales of the Cocktail in New Orleans, right? And it was the craft… you know, distillery show right in the room of craft distilleries. And some guy comes in and she takes a sip of it and she just went, it just starts coughing her head off and the whole thing. And it's just like, sorry, man, not ready yet.
Phil Brandon
Well, you know, there's some people that can't taste sulfur, you know?
Phil Brandon
And it's not right or wrong. They just can't taste it. And so, yeah, she can pick it up on it immediately. And we were there at that tasting, and I had just won double gold in San Francisco on my gin. This was like 2013. And this little guy walks across the room. You could see him kind of making a beeline. I'm like, what is going on? He says, hello, my name's Desmond, and I make Beefeater, and I want to taste your gin. And it was the master distiller from freaking Beefeater.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: These are Phil’s personal observations and anecdotes. The general claim about women’s palates is the host’s opinion, not an established finding of this article.
Exchange 21 / 45:40
What did Beefeater’s master distiller think?
The Bourbon Legends: “What did he think?”
Well, you know, he's a professional. He didn't put on that he liked it or didn't, you know, say, hey, that's interesting. Yeah. Jolly good. See it, you know, moved on. But it was it was I was like starstruck. I was like, oh, my God.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 22 / 46:05
The Jimmy Russell aside
The rhetorical question comes during the Jimmy Russell discussion; the shared speaker label makes the questioner uncertain.
The Bourbon Legends: “How can that guy be so nice?”
I don't know, man. I'm in the gift shop and he's just wandering around. I'm like, hey! He's the nicest guy, man.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: Phil’s gift-shop recollection is quoted as transcribed; the questioner should be checked against the recording.
Exchange 23 / 47:46
Catching up with Jimmy Russell’s longevity
A conversational prompt about Rock Town’s 16th anniversary.
The Bourbon Legends: “So you, you, you mentioned earlier that this is your 16th anniversary. So to catch up to Jimmy, you're going to have to be around for a long time.”
I don't, I started a much, much, much older than Jimmy did. Yeah. This is my 16th anniversary glass. Sweet 16.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 24 / 48:07
Is the anniversary release rum-finished rye?
The Bourbon Legends: “Now you did a [rye] finished in a rum cask for that, right?”
That is what will be released that night, yes.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 25 / 48:14
When is the anniversary celebration?
The Bourbon Legends: “Now, when does this officially take place?”
Oh, geez, you're going to ask me for the date. It's October 23rd is the Friday for the Masterclass, and [October 24] the bottles go on sale.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: October 24 is the sale date, not a count of 24 bottles. The later answer at 53:45 states October 24 explicitly.
Exchange 26 / 48:32
Confirming the rum finish
The Bourbon Legends: “So that's a rye finished in a [rum cask], correct?”
Yep, that's right.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 27 / 48:37
Why use a rum cask?
Phil explains Owen Martin’s Rock Town connection after the hosts react to the revelation.
The Bourbon Legends: “So what made you want to do that with a rum cask?”
Well, there's this little company up in Louisville called Angel's Envy that does that. And I thought maybe since Owen, who's the master distiller there, used to work for me, I would give it a go and try it myself.
Phil Brandon
Yeah, Owen Martin is the master distiller there, and his first job out of distilling school in Edinburgh was in Little Rock at Rocktown Distillery.
Phil Brandon
He was with me about a year and a half or so, and then he went up to Colorado to Stranahan's.
Phil Brandon
And worked from the bottom all the way up and was head distiller there, and then got the job at Angels Envy. So made his mark in finishing whiskeys at Stranahan's, and obviously Angels Envy is all about finishing, so… They made a great choice there for sure. Yeah.
Phil Brandon
Tours, rum and visitors
Exchange 28 / 52:44
How often are tours offered?
The Bourbon Legends: “How often do you guys do tours there? Is it every day you do it?”
We have them on our website where you can book them practically every day that we're open, yes.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 29 / 52:56
The Arkansas Bourbon Trail quip
This is a lighthearted exchange, followed by Phil’s description of retailer barrel-pick visits; it is not an announcement of a formal statewide trail.
The Bourbon Legends: “The Arkansas Bourbon Trail, huh?”
That's right.
Phil Brandon
You know, we do barrel picks, and I've had retailers here in Arkansas that have come, and we've tasted through, I don't know, a ton of barrels.
Phil Brandon
Let me try that one, you know, because I make a lot of different varieties, you know. I even have some rum that I've made, you know. Obviously the rum cask for the, the rye that is coming up is a, a rum that I made and, you know, aged in six years in that barrel, and then we're finishing it.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: The SRT merges the final Phil passage with the next host question. They are separated here at that turn boundary; audio review remains required.
Exchange 30 / 53:19
Will that be released to the public?
The Bourbon Legends: “Now is that something you guys are going to release to the public?”
Yes, it'll be available at the distillery on October 24th, yes.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 31 / 53:50
Did the question mean the rum itself?
The clarification separates the forthcoming rye from rum that Phil says was already on the distillery shelf and selected by Legacy Wine and Spirits.
The Bourbon Legends: “I think Craig means the rum, right?”
Oh, the rum is already on the shelf at the distillery. It's on the shelf. And at Legacy Wine and Spirits, they did a barrel pick, and they picked one of the rum barrels.
Phil Brandon
One of their guys is big into rum. And I tasted him on that and it blew his head off because it was amazingly good. Sorry to I'm not trying to self brag, but it was it was. So many so many flavor notes, tropical fruits, just And it's a turbinado sugar that I buy in bulk from a sugar mill in Louisiana called Lula Westfield. So it's not like I'm getting cane sugar from Domino or something. This is real live turbinado sugar straight from a sugar mill in Super Saks.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 32 / 56:24
What should a first-time visitor taste first?
The hosts discuss helping a newcomer taste whiskey before Phil returns to the reason for offering a range of spirits.
The Bourbon Legends: “We're going to bring, we're going to bring a newbie into Rocktown and you're there and we're going to take the tour. What is the first product that you're going to have them taste?”
Well, I mean, our standard tasting always starts with Rocktown vodka, you know?
Phil Brandon
The vodka and the gin. Yeah. We work our way down to the whiskeys and then finish with the coffee liqueur and the bourbon cream. But yeah.
Phil Brandon
That's what's going to happen. That's why we have that variety of products. Not everybody likes gin, but not everybody likes bourbon. Some people do. We want a little bit of everything for people to be able to try to give them that experience.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 33 / 58:57
Vodka sales and bourbon production
Roger’s observation about Sunday vodka sales prompts Phil’s response.
The Bourbon Legends: “I know on Sundays, the most popular place in downtown Little Rock is your place for the vodka. You sell a ton of vodka on Sundays.”
That's a good thing. That allows me to make more bourbon.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 34 / 59:55
Why is Conway still dry?
The host speculates about dry-county politics and nearby retailers.
The Bourbon Legends: “How are we still dry? How is the County still dry? I mean, you know, is, are they influencing people to not cause it would hurt their business or is it just, you know, it's just, it's kind of mind blowing that, like I said earlier, we're the wettest city in the driest County. Cause you can go anywhere and get a drink. You just can't buy liquor here.”
Yeah.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: Phil gives only the brief acknowledgment quoted here; he does not offer a causal explanation or substantiate the host’s speculation. The host’s comparisons about county counts are not adopted as facts in this article.
Arkansas oak and closing exchanges
Exchange 35 / 1:00:37
What comes next for Rock Town?
The hosts briefly interrupt to discuss the stave mill’s location and compare the experiment with other oak projects.
The Bourbon Legends: “What is the most excited thing that you're looking for to do next? What's the next thing for Rocktown Distillery, boys? I'm just saying, next down the line, what's going to be something that you want to do or you want to try?”
You know, obviously I'm very excited about the Masterclass and the upcoming 16th anniversary, but, you know, there's just always something fun that we're doing, you know? I mean… I can't tell you about everything, but, you know, there's one of the things.
Phil Brandon
Aging is, I don't know if you're familiar with a, Cooper's called Seguin Moreau.
Phil Brandon
Did you know they have a stave mill in Arkansas?
Phil Brandon
The Leola sawmill back… Yeah.
Phil Brandon
So that was one of my accounts back in the day. Anyway…
Phil Brandon
I have purchased a few barrels from [Seguin Moreau] that were cut from Arkansas Oak. And, uh, then take, you know, yard dried here in Arkansas, [taken to Napa to be coopered]. And then brought back, um, to Arkansas.
Phil Brandon
That'll be a, and I can tell you what I tasted it at three years old the other day and man. It's crazy how good those barrels are. So I'm excited about that when it comes of age, but it's really cool what they're doing, the technology they have behind what they're doing. They take a core sample out of every log [sent] to France overnight. And their lab there, they run a GC mass spec on it. And then they can tell you the flavor profile of that log.
Phil Brandon
And then they stamp it with a barcode and they trace it all the way through the process.
Phil Brandon
I bought some barrels from them, put some whiskey in it, see how it does. You can't like, okay, yeah, I'm all in on this, and then buy a bunch of barrels and fill it with a bunch of whiskey, and the barrels turn out to not be… what you'd hope they might be. So that's one of the experiments I'm excited about because it also brings in the Arkansas connection.
Phil Brandon
I think if you're an Arkansas distillery, you know, distilleries are about the place they're from, you know, and that's the Scottish tradition is, you know, you got the lowlands, the highlands, the Speysides, the Islas, and they all develop flavor profiles based on their region and the whole thing. And The only way that can really happen is that you're using ingredients that are local to the distillery. And I think that's really important. So I'm excited about that. These are Arkansas logs being used to Cooper the barrels.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: Bracketed wording flags transcript problems; Phil’s description of laboratory testing is attributed to him, not independently verified.
Exchange 36 / 1:01:55
The stave mill’s location
The Bourbon Legends: “You're on 270 going backwards north, huh? Going towards…”
Context / transcription note: The hosts discuss Malvern and Poyen, and the supplied captions mix their voices with Phil’s. A distinct Phil answer is not reliably identifiable; see the linked recording.
Exchange 37 / 1:05:05
What is the unfinished piece of barrel wood called?
A follow-up prompt while discussing Hard Truth’s local timber.
The Bourbon Legends: “Well, they weren't really staves at that point, but they were just, uh, I don't know even what you call them. Uh, They were cut to stave length.”
That's what they call the flat piece of wood is a stave, even though it hasn't been shaved yet.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 38 / 1:06:01
Steve’s DeLuca’s pizza question
The Bourbon Legends: “Phil, Steve wants to know, he was with me that night, what pizza did y'all order at DeLuca's a few weeks ago? You remember?”
We got the pepperoni and sausage, my friend.
Phil Brandon
Yeah, right? And they're massive. They're this big. Oh, my gosh.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 39 / 1:06:46
Which bourbon should a newcomer try?
Audience question from “Bourbon Taster,” read aloud by the host.
The Bourbon Legends: “Which bourbon would you suggest for someone that's never had your bourbon?”
From Rocktown. You got to start with the original, the 92 proof Arkansas bourbon whiskey.
Phil Brandon
Yeah.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 40 / 1:07:05
How many states carry Rock Town?
The Bourbon Legends: “How many states are you guys in?”
Context / transcription note: The exchange immediately gives “About 18” and “18, yeah,” but the supplied speaker labels place both on the host. The figure is preserved as interview context rather than an independently verified Phil quotation.
Exchange 41 / 1:07:59
The Big Rock across the river
A conversational prompt about Little Rock and North Little Rock geography.
The Bourbon Legends: “And I guess if you look across the river, you can see the Big Rock.”
Yep. Cliffs of North Little Rock. That's right. Otherwise known as Emerald Park now. Yep.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 42 / 1:08:12
Is Fort Roots still there?
The final “Okay, is it?” receives a host’s confirmation rather than a second answer from Phil.
The Bourbon Legends: “Didn't there used to be a mental hospital over there? Fort Roots? Okay, is it?”
Fort Roots is still there, yeah.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 43 / 1:09:23
Finding Phil at the distillery
A closing conversational prompt.
The Bourbon Legends: “Next time we're at Rocktown, we'll try to look you up and see if you're there, but usually when we're there, you're probably at home or something because we go at night a lot of times.”
I try to go home every now and then, but you know.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 44 / 1:09:37
Sleeping in a rickhouse
Phil’s response is interspersed with the hosts’ hammock and weather discussion.
The Bourbon Legends: “Well, one time on our Facebook page, we did have a question of the day, and it was, if you could sleep in any rickhouse, which would it be? So I bet you've slept in your rickhouse.”
I can't say that I have, but practically.
Phil Brandon
That is a fun question.
Phil Brandon
There's a certain time of year you would want to do it, but there's a lot of times a year you wouldn't want to.
Phil Brandon
I've been in Kentucky Rick houses in November and they're cold as you know what. I would not want to be trying to bunk in one of those. That's for sure.
Phil Brandon
Exchange 45 / 1:10:47
A live show and possible barrel pick at Rock Town
A proposal rather than a booked event. The hosts float a live show and retailer-supported barrel pick.
The Bourbon Legends: “At some point, we'd love to do a live and do one of our lives from your location down there. And jump in and just hook into the Wi-Fi because I know you got a Wi-Fi there because I used it when we did the customer thing. But do a live from there. I think it'd be fun because people get an idea and see what all there. We kind of walk around and see some of the stuff. I mean, y'all could do a barrel pick and we could live the barrel pick. We just have to find somebody that'll buy the barrel pick.”
Get old John Crow on here. John or Sam Rad.
Phil Brandon
Get your buddy Anthony Eckert to come and do it.
Phil Brandon
Context / transcription note: “Sam Rad” is the supplied transcription; confirm the name before publishing this quotation.
Exchange 46 / 1:13:35
A final Fort Worth distribution observation
An audience observation relayed by the host, rather than a formal question.
The Bourbon Legends: “Heather says they've only seen Rocktown in one store ever, and that was in Fort Worth.”
Wow, that was a long time ago.
Phil Brandon










